bad advice: no guys ever asked a chick out and wanted to remain friends. that is painfull for a guy - being only friends with a girl he really wants. 30-50% chance.... umm i don't like those odds i will just go for someone else.

Being a guy who has entered the "friend-zone" many times, I would like to hear stories of how to get out of this zone because I don't believe it is possible. Sure, girls say "I just want to be friends" what they are really saying to me is "I want to shop around to see if I can find a better product, and if I cannot, then I will pick you up on the way out."

You got it. I'll post an article in the next few weeks on how to convert a friendship on fourth down and make it to her end zone.

Sidebar on the topic: The reason a lot of women don't step out of the friend zone is not beacuse she doesn't want to take things to a different level, or because she doesn't like the guy enough, but because she likes him too much. Women get more attached to men than visa versa and the thought of losing a guy friend that she loves if the conversion doesn't work (which it often doesn't) is too hard to make it worth it. Ya dig?

i've been reading a few of the articles and i just have to say im appalled at the advice thats been given.

This is not the way to pick up chicks. If she says "i just want to be friends", it doesn't mean she likes you too much, or rejected you for superficial reasons, it means you played the game wrong from the start. and by NO means is "staying her friend" an option for getting her in the future. She's just going to use you for her intellectual needs and run to you when her actually boyfriends dump her or treat her badly.

Look, let me give you a basic premsise and work from there. The idea of going out with, or dating someone, means that you want to BE with that person. If she actually wants to go out with you, she will want to spend that time with you. If she wants you really badly, she'll try even harder to be with you. As the rate of desire increases, so does the effort to get your attention and be with you. Theres no such thing as an "implode theory" where if the girl likes you too much she WON"T spend time with you, thats just absurd.

Accepting the friendship is NOT a turn on to women. It means they want you there to hang out with, or a shoulder to cry on, NOT to date and eventually have "intimate" relations with. that 30%-50% chance that was mentioned is absurd. try .3% to .5% chance if you take that course of action.

The writers here seem to have mixed one key concept. The idea of liking as a friend, and liking as a lover. The two are NOT the same.

One word: Flirt.

If you don't flirt to test the waters, when you ask her out, she will be stunned, and so will default to changing nothing. Like any human relationship management, you don't want to do things abruptly.

Flirting makes things gradual. Build her up. If she doesn't respond well, that's cool. Flirt with lots of interesting girls.

You enter the friend zone if you build a relationship based on being friendly rather than flirtaceous.

Of course, being flirtaceous requires you to be friendly.

And whatever you do, don't be a misogynistic bastard. No 'nice ass' comments unless you know it will be taken well (i.e. she's already your girlfriend).

One fatal mistake that I think a lot of men make is not putting enough time into the flirting process. There is an expression about not letting on that you like a woman because women like a challenge, but I think to be a little more specific, women will start wondering whether a guy is interested, and the more time they spend wondering, the more time they are thinking about that guy, and therefore the more interested they become. Men should spend more time talking to women and calling them, but avoid being too forthcoming right away, give it a couple weeks, too short of a time to be friends, but long enough that she feels comfortable and has had her interest sparked. Women read romance novels and watch cheesy movies because they like the idea of the building romance. It's a big turn on.

You still have a good 30-50% chance of converting the friendship into something more.

Yeah, I'm gonna call bullshit on this one, too. There's no way that for every 10 guys who you've told that you just wanted to be friends, that you ended up sleeping with 3-5 of them.

No, no, no, Mr. Math. I said 30-50% CHANCE of conversion. It's not a certainty or liklihood, just a possibility. I'm saying that about 3-5 out of 10 guys I told "I just want to be friends" I still had an attraction to or feelings for. It didn't always work out for different reasons. For the record, I did end up sleeping with two of them.

I would move on at this point. She hasn't decided and the longer you wait, the less likely youll be in the lover zone. It's less energy consuming to date a woman who knows she wants to date you then one who has to spend time to decide.

I'm with the majority here. If she says "I just want to be friends" then they guy has gone about the courtship wrong. Thinking that by being platonic friends will get her romantically interested in a huge waste of time. He could wind up waiting years to get some pants from her.

I'd let her know, tactfully but without doubt, I was interested in her as a girlfriend One word). If she isn't feeling me, and it happens, then we can be friends but I'm not going to waste my time and hers trying to get with her. There are plenty of girls out there; she isn't the last compatible hottie on the planet.

The dreaded friend zone, only way to get away from it is make her hate you, once she hates you , she may feel the attraction that she initially had for you, staying friends will only drain your energy, I have pulled it off a couple times , but it isn't easy, most guys are too afraid of losing the friendship, they want it both ways, they can't do without the closeness , but won't break the habit of letting her have her way. ya gotta grow some marbles and end the friendship thing, that's what your mother and sisters are for, friends.
now don't think you will get off ending the friendship without a fight, she will tell ya she hates ya, is sick of you, never wants to hear from you again, she will close off all communications, she wants her cake and eat it too so to speak, you may be told you are too old or young or many other excuses why she couldn't see herself with you as a girlfriend, and lots of other crap, it all goes with the territory, it takes time also, when she finally feels you gone as a friend, she will crave the closeness she had with you for other reasons. mainly because she couldn't manipulate you any more and that creates attraction. and that's what you are seeking, for her to crave your company and feel like she can't live without you, not the other way, you can't live without her, she doesn't care how you feel, she only cares how she feels, so don't go on about how you feel, let her know you can walk away from it all, women admire men with that strength.
they don't want men going on about their feelings all the time.
for most women, men don't have feelings, only needs, she is only interested in how much crap you will take to fulfill those needs, you can't fake it either, you really do have to make up your mind you are willing to walk away and lose it all, they will test the hell outta you to see if you are willing to walk away, it's not an easy thing , but if it were, most mens struggles would be over, we all play the games, some women are just better players, don't get angry at them, just look at the game they are playing and turn it back on them. if they don't call you, DON'T call them. I could write a book on this line of thought, but there are plenty of them out there, do lots of reading, and use you inner strength for a better outcome.

I've heard lots of stories about people who were just friends becoming lovers and even spouses, but in EVERY case the two didn't see each other at all for several months or (more often) years in between. If you're her friend, you screwed up. Get over it. We've all done it. It's ok. There are literally millions more out there. Once you are in the friend zone you have three options. 1) Be the friend (nothing wrong with this - I have lots of attractive female friends who wind up introducing me to other women who I didn't screw up with). 2) Become really "busy" & fade out of her life for a year or two (during which you'll probably meet someone else anyway, but also during which time the friend thing will sort of reset itself - I am doing this myself right now with a friend who I have no interest in being just pals with, but I'm dating other women in the meantime and may just like on of them better after all). 3) Become a hater (not recommended - either use her to validate yourself as a spongeworthy guy to other women, or drop her without letting her know you are doing that and let it reset.).

~ J

This is rubbish! how the fuck can you accept a just friends invitation.. you'll be there for ages trying to win her back! and it won't do the bloke any good.. tell her that you dont wanna be a mate and as painful as it maybe.. just move on.. the woman will just end up using you when she has problems and running to you.. she doesnt love you.. she just likes the fact that she has someone there who would do anything for you.. trust me i had a similar problem and i kept getting i wanna be best friends and all that crap.. i told her one day that i didnt want her as a mate and i wanted to get away from her.. she wouldnt leave me alone from that point on, and they hate it!

i can contest to what mike said. i broke up with my girlfriend. she said she still wanted to be friends. i pissed her off stopped talking to her and moved a thousand miles away (not because of her though) now all i here from her friends and mine is she wants to get back together with me.

Right Answer: NEXT!

Amen, brother.

Guys who are "Just Friends", this advice is for you:

Ditch the Bitch.

The odds of getting her as a girlfriend are far, far lower than this website suggests. Almost non-existent. Your odds of sex are greater than odds of love because you'll be the one she clings to during those vulnerable lonely times.

But it will never lead to love.

If she says, "Lets be friends." Answer with, "I'm sorry but no. That's not the type of relationship I'm looking for." Or, better still, "I already have all the friends I need." LOL

Right Answer: Good. You're paying.

The advice is bullshit. Here's the lowdown from a guy who knows girls. When a girl tells you she just wants to be friends, it means she isn't attracted to you sexually. And you will NEVER convert that feeling into something more - in fact, by being a "friend" you screw yourself, because all her other "friends" are women, and she doesn't have sexual felings about them.

The BEST thing you can do with a female "friend" is cut her off. That's your only chance. If you do this, there's a SMALL chance that, after a little time, she will realise that, hey, she misses you, and maybe she SHOULD give something more than friendship a whirl. But if she doesn't miss you - what have you lost? Someone who didn't want to screw you and even whose "friendship" was so feeble they don't miss you.

Usually, a girl saying "I just want to be friends" is just a polite girl's way of saying "No fucking way ever. Piss off". Smile and thank her - she just saved you a lot of time. Walk away and never see her again (Or call her, or mow her lawn, or give her a lift, or whatever wimpy thing you did in the first place to be considered a "friend"). Remember - while you're being a "friend" some other guy she REALLY likes meets her in a disco and is making the beast with two backs the same night.

i met a guy. we sparked rite away. yes it was partially sexual attraction and it was something we both felt. he didnt want to be involved with a girl at this time of his life but he said that when he saw me he new he had to have me..but besides the sex, it took no effort for us to be able to talk, laugh and jus enjoy each others company when our busy schedules permit. i fell in abit at first more than he did and i knew that this was not a good thing and that it would make him nervous so i backed off and i've taken time to think about things and i'm learning to except this friendship/sex with him with no strings attatched. it's a first for me. i have told him jus how much i love him, meaning a true appreciation to having this human being in my life regardless with what we share. i believe it's a capability of humans to love each other regardless. we arent together all the time but we recently came back together as long as things were still no strings attatched. funny how we both would rather have that closeness w/each other rather than other people. he has admitted that when he kisses me it has made him feel incredibly on top of the world. happens to both of us. yet the sex is just as incredible. it's everything from sweet to filthy. yes. men love that i think. is it possible to have a healthy friendship that includes sex ? i guess it depends on the 2 involved. were 2 people who r not sure about a relationship but at the same time we're estatic with what we have with one another.. can anyone relate to what i've talked about here? we both are trying to figure out what brought us together and why. thats where life gets difficult to understand. maybe we should jus take it for what it is.

btw...this is a girl putting in her thoughts... i wrote the message above. am i even allowed in this site?

Dont want to read all other answers so sorry if this idea is double.

I learned, that when meeting a new women -regardless of the situation- and you want to get into bed with her, dont let to much time pass. After a few weeks/months the little hop from just flirting to 69 will become more difficult. The way from "the new guy" to bed is shorter than "a friend" to affair.

i got that reply and a month later i'm going out with her. another couple months and we're in love.

works for some, maybe not for all.

i have a girl "friend", who i am unsure if she wants more. we both kinda ignore the whole subject of us. we have alot of fun together and there is no bullshit that you deal with from a "girlfriend". someday we may end up together, who knows. but for now its just cool. not to mention that she is a nurse with many hot friends. i have hammered upon several(of course she does not know that)!

Take it from me guys...its a right off. Move on. Keep the friendship with the chick but move on to other women. She is obviously is looking at other men (although she might not tell you). If she really wanted to be with you she would call you and ask you out on a regular basis. Move on to other women and watch how jealous she'll get. It's hilarious. You almost feel like saying, "You had your chance already honey!".

she has a boyfriend and only thinks of me as a friend and i asked if it cause she has a boyfriend already and she said no its that she can only think of me as her friend and she doesent think more will ever be but if this is true why does she keep tabs on what im doing even if it could be plain as day and ask me why arent u talkin or why r u pissey and touches my arm and call eact other playful names and why does she care how i feel and such if she didnt love me back and its the lil things at work that she does like logging me in and out on the till/ register and clock me out on the time clock and tease me in all sorts of ways and her whole family want me to be with her more than her own boyfriend and i can go on forever so theres some of the reason why i think she loves me but cant say it

If a woman tells you that she wants to only be friends then thats her way of saying, "Sorry but I don't want a relationship or sex with you" in a nice way. Thats it. If she really wanted your ass she would call you constantly and want to be with you all the time. Don't under estimate women either. They are worse then men. Don't think for one second that this woman is sitting at home watching "fear factor". While you are wasting your time thinking about how you can convert your platonic female "friend" into something more, she is at a club picking up guys and going home with them. Don't be a sucker. I would honestly keep the friendship, but go out and meet other women and let this so-called friend call you and come to you if anything. But avoid calling her. You are not a shoulder to cry on or Dr.Phil for that matter.

Wow. What a great topic, spanning almost a year. It's timeless, really.

I've read all of the responses on here, and the sad thing is that they're all right. Yes, even the ladder b.s. Each woman(and even a few men) will give that particular kiss of death for a wide variety of reasons that make sense only to them. The real problem is that this phrase gets used in situations where it should NOT be. So ladies(who are, by far, the ones who have the LEAST amount of know-how when it comes to using this phrase even though they say it the most), only use that line WHEN. YOU. REALLY. MEAN. IT. Why? Well, if you say it to me, I'm going to take you at your word. For example, let's say you just gave me this line.

Me: You just want to be friends? GREAT! You can never have too many friends. Hey, new friend, can I talk to you for a second? I'm feeling kind of low- you see, there was this girl that I really felt something for...she hurt me pretty bad. You wanna go pound out a few brews/sodas to drown my sorrows?

If she says anything other than yes to this, then she's not worth my time, and I'm damn glad I found out sooner than later. Friendship is important. Powerful. Better in many ways than a physical relationship(although certainly not ALL of them). Only offer it when you're ready to be there for someone through thick and thin.

Otherwise, a brief physical or romantic liason that ends poorly may be preferable, and I speak from experience on both ends of the equation.

I agree with my bretheren on this one. I've been stuck in friend land for many a year over one gal, and Ive been on dates with other gals who only wanted friendship. And let me tell you, being friends doesnt get you shit.

You will never ever get laid. It doesnt matter how sweet or nice, or kind or patient you are. It doesnt matter how much you two have in common or how compatible you are. If that bitch doesnt dig on you from day one. Forget her. Theyre are plenty more out there.

I agree with most of the comments on hear. If a woman throws the "lets be friends" line at you, just say, "no thanks, i've got lots of friends" and move on. This is a powerful answer and believe me...you do not need the headache. It means you played your cards wrong from the start. Learn from your mistakes. I learned that the hard way when I be-friended a woman that I had extreme feelings for. There are all kinds of hot women in this city let alone country that will go out with any guy on this board. Save yourself the grief and heartache and move on. Trust me..although she isn't telling you she is checking out and possible going out with other men. Other guys are banging your "friend". And remember, just because she flirts with you and is polite with you, that doesn't mean she isn't the same way with anyone and every other man she meets. Move on.

I JUST WANTED TO THANK ALL OF YOU GUYS FOR THE ADVICE I HAD THE F BOMB= I JUST WANT TO BE FRIENDS I TOLD HER STRAIT OUT I TAKE YOU OUT BECAUSE IM INTERESTED IN YOU NOT BECAUSE I NEED ANOTHER FRIEND SHE DIDNT LIKE THIS TO MUCH BUT I GUESS ITS BETTER THEN WASTING MY TIME AND MONEY WHEN I COULD BE OUT LOOKING FOR SOME ONE THAT LIKE ME AND DOES NOT JUST WANT TO BE FRIEND I HAVE LOTS OF FRIENDS IF I WANT TO TALK ABOUT STUFF OR JUST HANGOUT WITH SOMEONE I LEAV THAT TO MY BOYS

I recently started seeing a girl and after a couple of weeks she came out with the "i just want to be friends". I took it pretty well at the time and ended up sleeping with her THAT night (which we had never done before). We are just friends now and unless you are waaaay up your own *ss then everyone could use another friend. Its not awkward or weird or anything, its a genuine friendship. It is possible guys...

After a whole pile of reading, I'll put in my 2 cents.

As a guy who's crossed the friend line a few times, I definitely agree with the initial article. To reference a newer article, I've most definetly got hot girl syndrome, and 'lets just be friends' is like a second chance to me.

When you first meet the girl, awkward as hell, but somehow get to the 'friends' bit, you're in luck, but! (and this is for the nice guys out there) you can't be the pushover friend that everyone posting here seems to treat 'lets be friends' as.

True, a friend will be there through thick and thin, but a friend who's into the girl will also spice things up and keep it interesting. If you become just another part of her routine, you will likely get forgotten as a possible boyfriend.

Plan events, get yourself out there doing fun stuff with her, her friends, and your friends. Show her that you can be fun, and funny, and interesting, and she may fall for you yet!

Guys i got a vry important to ask! I was going out with this girl for the past 6 years and we finally broke up! I was broken into pieces, totally torn apart...! our r/s was going bad i tried my ends to mend it but i needed her hand..now this girl got in touch with my friend after 3-4 months of breakup( we ttoally got out of touch)..and started acquiring about me...when she didnt know abt the new girl...she told my friend 'oh im not in love with him anymore..n all..but the moment she found out that im dating this hot chic who she hated (as she had created probs in our r/s initially) she got pissed off..and ended up calin me after a week..and told my friend..'shes missin me n all..! anyways later on we ended up meeting..i asked her fi she wants to get back...she was playin all tricks but she later msged me on my cell after meeting 'lets just be friends..we really dont need to go out...we both know we will have probs...i dont want to lose u again'...i told ehr sure...and the later on told her i cant eb friends with her cos my new chic does not approve of it..now the prob is that...shall i be friends with her for a while? will it help us gettin back...and if u suggest being friends what shall i act like? ...ive deletedher from my msn anbut she has not..shall i become friends with her to get her back? what shud i do? please ppl help me out...we weree madly in love for 6 yrs...she ocassionally msges me and say 'oh ull always be huge part of my life and that can never be changed'? (keep in mind we were together for 6 yrs)...what shall i do? A quick response will be appreciated! shall i unblock her on msn ad start talking or shall i not be friends at all?Thanks waiting eagerly for ur guys help! :( (wanted to marry her)

Dude
You need a change of attitude, you seem Like a nice guy that's really in to your ex. So it might be tough for you to adopt this philosophy. But the best advise I can give you is become the "Ice Man" to her. Right now you are her yoyo. And every time she plays with it, it comes back like predicted. She's looking for a challange and for a short time there you were a challange until you came back so easily. Break that string let her spend a long time fixing it and rewinding it. I hate to give out secrets but if you haven't totally screwed up your chance by being too nice, then start by never ever call her again. least wise for the next few months. Now if she finally breaks her silence be cool be nice, talk about her but "Do not talk about your feelings" if she says call me just grin and say sure, but don't call. After she calls you again be nice and say you've been busy. when she asks you to call her, grin and say sure or okay. But don't call. Finally when she calls let her get started then cut her off and tell her your busy and tell her to Call you back in an hour.
After that you dictate when you want her to call but alway have somewhere to be shortly after the calls. Note: even if she leaves a message to call I don't care if it's an emergency do not call.
Good luck and you can thank me later.
rob

Thanks a bunch rob for taking out time for me! ok i just recently found out she has jouined this HR consultancy firm (by the way she jusy finished her Masters in Psychology) so im sure u will have fair bit of idea wat shes capable off? Now i was thinking to go to her office meet her boss for some business (as my friend has to go to her office) and she has no idea that i got to know where she works? i was thinking to go to her office with my friend and the boss will show the entire office and im sure i will bump into her? is it a good idea?was thinking to bump into her and act cold like 'oh shit..u work here..good to see u and walk off' and one more thing u have not answered buddy...shall i unblock her on msn or keep her deleted and blocked? she has not deleted me! Lookin forward for your suggestion!

situation: during the summer, ran into this girl and there is a lot to like. i played the nice guy to get on her good side because she knows a lot of guys. so now, 6 months later, i've been "best friends" with her for the last 2 months about. this is due to her girlfriends drama and bs, so she doesn't have any close girlfriends...only guy "friends" which is bad for me.
so we often get on the topic of "us" and she always says she could see me as a boyfriend but (mainly)1). she nevers talks to her exs so if we never go out, she won't lose me and 2). she can see me as a boyfriend but shes not over her last boyfriend who she "fell in love with" (broke up about 2.5 months ago).
so i really want to reverse all this because like i said, there is a lot to like about her, but we cant get past that "just friends" stage for a couple reasons...one is yeah, ill say it, im a nice guy!!...too nice damn it! but im ready to stop talking to her. heres what happened:
i gave her her xmas/bday presents to her already and then she puts in her profile how she's "such a pimp" and she's "mastered the game." but i dont wanna be obvious (completely stop talking outta nowhere) nor ruin what we have (tell her off). PLEASE HELP ME OUT on these specifics if you got anything. my main question is should i stop RIGHT NOW and not even say a word to her for some time or do i not have a chance??

adeel
Listen the less contact the better.
This will do two things for you. It will get your head in the right frame of mind. Right now your hurting and she's all you can think about. I'm not promoting being a player but, check out what's out there be honest with who ever you bump into. And who knows maybe someone truely better will come along. At the same same time if she feels you have put her behind you and is risking losing you forever then she will make a move. But you have to resist the urge to be nice.
Lets say she doesn't, well then she will atleast admire you for knowing what you won't do and that is to crave in and crawl back when ever she calls. A women will be the last to admit this but they want a man who won't let them get away with evrything. They really want a man who is stronger then them, but most importantly one that makes them laugh. Thats about it.

James
I can really tell most of the guys on this site are stand up guys.
caught up in wanting a women that they are so in love with. But this is ususally where the mistakes begin. Most women know when a man is interested in them. As long as they guy has made obvious attemp to strike up a conversation

Most women don't have there act to together on how to attract or keep a man. 50% will show you they are interested in you by sleeping with you. the other 50% play the game with degrees of conservatism.
It's up to you to sort out if this one is really worth going after. My experience with women is that if a women doesn't have close female friends, she should have a career or hobby that puts her in that situation like full contact karate lol. other wise she doesn't have health attitude about herself and needs constant male stimulation to reaffirm her position. And in your case it's likely she's such a flirt that none of her girl friends trust her around their men.
My suggestion is to run away and not look back. She's being chased by all of her guy friends and when you gave her those gifts you sealed you faith. There are a lot of girls out there that can appreciate thoughtful guy, but never be in a rush to buy anything.

me and my girl broke up after dating for 2 months, she broke up with me because she was talking to an old friend, he had called while we was on the phone and she just sit there and talked to him rather then me so i just hung up and then text her about 45 min later asking was she off the phone she said no and i said well its pretty fucked up you gonna talk to him rather then your own boyfriend and thats when she said she felt like i was controlling her and broke up with me and ever since them i've been trying to get back with her and everytime i ask her whats the chance of us trying to get back together she just says IDK, so what should i do, i really love her but i dunno if she loves me back, then i asked her again tonight what she thought of me and her going back out and she said "Idk i really cant say it to soon to tell" so again what should i do? REPLY SOON WOULD BE GREATLY APPERICIATED.....FARMER